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By Sam Macrory - 16th May 2011
Pensions minister Steve Webb isn’t interested in a turf war over the ownership of coalition policies – and is confident that Lib Dem values will leave an indelible mark on pension reform.
Steve Webb faces a dilemma. His party suffered serious losses at last week’s local elections, and its hopes for electoral reform were dashed. Coalition relations with the Conservatives are strained, with disgruntled Lib Dems demanding ‘clear yellow water’. But as a Lib Dem minister in the Department for Work and Pensions, seemingly one of the more functional government departments, Webb seems reluctant to pick fights.
He is lively despite the previous night’s 4am Commons finish. “As we get nearer to an election, each party will emphasise what they brought to the coalition,” he says.
“But the sort of things I want to see will never happen unless my Conservative colleagues buy into them. If you want to persuade people of the merits of what you want to do, then go forward jointly – there’s no point banging a drum and saying ‘I want my quota of ideas’.”
While coming across more policy man than party animal, as a Lib Dem minister in charge of reforming pensions, Webb’s recently published green paper contains a proposal for a flat-rate pension which appears to chime with previous Lib Dem thinking.
“Some of the things we are talking about are things the Lib Dems have talked about for a long time,” he says, before insisting: “This is something that has Lib Dem heritage, but dealing with complexity and rewarding saving is not phenomenally ideological; this is very much a joint effort.”
Indeed, Webb says he is “struck by the consensus” behind the proposals, and describes Iain Duncan Smith, the Tory work and pensions secretary, as “a very loyal man; you feel that he will stand by you”.
But when his predecessors have failed, why does Webb think his reforms can work? “Everyone wants to simplify, but as soon as they get near the levers of power, they micromanage,” he replies. “If we can demystify what is a baffling subject for some people, then that will be an achievement. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.”
The green paper sets out two clear options: an acceleration of existing plans to move the second state pension to a flat rate by 2020, or an immediate move to a single-tier, flat-rate pension estimated at £140 a week in today’s prices.
Webb won’t say which option he favours, but historically he has supported the latter. “Yes, but in opposition everything is very black and white – I might have glossed over some of the subtleties.”
However, he is keen to point out that “people haven’t grasped” that the flat-rate approach would not mean spending any more money. “We haven’t found a pot of money to shower on tomorrow’s pensioners and ignore today’s. We’re saying we can spend our budget better.” Doubters should be encouraged. In his own words,Webb is on “home territory”.
After graduating in PPE from Oxford, where he “joined the Conservative Association in 1983, but just to hear politicians”, Webb worked for the Institute for Fiscal Studies – “though I never did
He soon began to wonder if he wanted to be “an academic saying ‘on the one hand or on the other’, or get involved”, and while his parents – Webb’s father worked in the motor industry before losing his job in the early 1980s – were Conservative voters, Webb joined the Lib Dems in 1992.
An attraction, he says, was the people he had worked with through the IFS, such as Alan Beith, then Treasury spokesman, and researchers Ed Davey and David Laws.“In those days you joined the Lib Dems because you believed in what they stood for, and you were probably sacrificing political ambition to do so. That sort of appealed.”
He quit the IFS to stand for Parliament, and after a brief time as a social policy professor at Bath University, Webb was elected in 1997, the year of New Labour’s landslide victory.
“We couldn’t really change anything,” Webb admits. “You could learn the ropes and do constituency issues, but it would get frustrating if that’s always how you were. That’s how I assumed I would be.”
Over 13 years in opposition, Webb’s stock rose during repeat stints as Lib Dem spokesman for pensions and, briefly, health and then energy. He “thought seriously” about standing as leader when the vacancy arose in 2007, before passing up the chance. “I expect it’s the best decision I have ever made,” he recalls. “It’s an incredibly demanding job. I enjoy policy, and so much of what the leader does is structural and on the rubber chicken circuit.”
At that time he was described as the “standard bearer” of the Lib Dem left, though he now says he doesn’t think labels like that help. Nevertheless, Webb admits he was an “odd contributor” to the 2006 Orange Book, a series of contributions by right-of-centre Lib Dems arguing for marketorientated policies.
When I ask whether that tome shaped where his party is today, Webb’s answer suggests flexibility. “Clearly David Laws [the book’s editor] is a powerful influence in the party, and in a way the centre-right was more organised and creative in doing that type of thing than the centre-left ever was – or frankly is.”
But being placed on a political spectrum, Webb says, is “never a terribly helpful way of thinking about things”. Instead he believes that the Lib Dems “have to define ourselves in our own terms, not by saying ‘I am like them, but not very’, or ‘a bit more like this than they are’”.
“One of the lessons [of government] is that parties need to identify themselves in terms of values rather than specific policies. When you vote for me, what I can do is tell you the sort of person I am, the values I have, the values of my party. Then you know what drives me when I go into a room, when I give and take in negotiations. Are those the values you want in the room? Rather than: here’s a shopping list of policies, and if I don’t deliver every one of those, then I’ve betrayed you.” Webb’s approach is understandably pragmatic: last year he voted to raise fees for higher education, breaking a pre-election Lib Dem pledge in a manifesto he helped author.
“Parties’ specific policies evolve all the time,” he argues. “Compare Labour’s manifestos in 1983 to 1997: they’re totally different. Manifestos can look very out of date very quickly. You want to know how the person you are getting will respond – so manifestos will be about the identity of the party.” If that comment causes Lib Dems to wince, Webb offers some consolation: “If I was going to be a constituency MP for however many years, then I’d feel that was worthwhile, but getting the chance to be in government is all the sweeter because you never really thought it would happen. “What people miss about the role of the Lib Dems in the coalition is not the pitched battle at the end of the process, it’s that we’re there at the start.
Things often never get beyond the drawing board, because you’re in the room before people get very committed. If you say that it won’t work for my side, then it never sees the light of day. The longest book to be written is the list of things which never saw the light of day – for both sides.”
For Steve Webb’s vision of pension reform, the light of day is more than a possibility; it may well give his party a much-needed chance to bang the victory drum.
Webb… on Nick Clegg calling him a ‘problem’ in 2008
“Allegedly... I told Nick that I didn’t know what was said, and that we’ve all said
stuff that we wouldn’t have if we’d known a tape recorder was next to us. I get
on well with him; we’ve worked closely over the last 12 months.”
Webb… on AV
“I’ve been struck how difficult it was to communicate. As the defenders of the
status quo were the Conservative Party as a whole and the Labour dinosaurs, I
thought that the young people who protested for fairer votes would take one
look at the old order and run a mile.”
Webb on… his Christianity
“You don’t wave a Bible around, but it’s what you bring to bear. People get a bit
nervous about religious beliefs, but then people who are socialists bring those values
to bear – and rightly so.”
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