Lord Irvine has defended the government's controversial plans to reform the House of Lords during a grilling by MPs.

With critics declaring that the government's reform plan is dead, members of the Commons public administration committee pressed for an indication that the lord chancellor is prepared to think again and raise the number of elected members in the reformed upper house.

Published in November, the white paper proposed that just 20 per cent of the reformed house would be elected, leading opponents to say it would become a "house of patronage". Lord Wakeham, who chaired the royal commission on reform, has also refused to back the proposals as they currently stand.

But Irvine told MPs that increasing the number of elected peers would threaten the supremacy of the House of Commons, and those calling for a fully elected chamber were "in denial".

And in a statement likely to anger Labour backbenchers, he refused to acknowledge any democratic basis for the reforms.

He told the committee "there is no necessity for there to be any elected" members". Pressed on whether there should be no elected peers at all, he said that was "a view shared by a hell of a lot of people".

Election is not the only route to democratic legitimacy, Irvine told MPs. The 20 per cent figure in the white paper had been included to ensure representation of the regions and nations.

He conceded that in future he might be able to "contemplate more" elected members, but emphasised that "it would have to be something far short of 50 per cent" to avoid undermining the Commons.

Lord Irvine has previously mounted a strong defence of his plans, telling Labour backbenchers in early January that the proportion of elected members was not likely to be increased. However, there have been signs of ministerial disagreement over the plans, with the leader of the Commons, Robin Cook, thought to favour a 40 or 50 per cent elected component.

And the Conservatives have sought to out-flank the government by putting forward their own plans for a "senate" where 80 per cent of members would be elected.

In the Commons on Wednesday, questioned on the issue by Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy, Tony Blair appeared to indicate there was scope for increasing the proportion of elected members. The government was "going to listen to the consultation", he declared.

"I entirely accept that there are people in different parties with different views; that of course is the nature of the debate. If a consensus could be found, that would be excellent...I am afraid to say that, at the moment at any rate, we are quite a long way from that consensus," said Blair.