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Vera Baird QC MP
Vera Baird QC MP
Question: Why did you get involved in the Tracy Housel case?
Vera Baird: With a background as a civil liberties lawyer, it seemed to me a very important example of what's so bad about the death penalty so bad that it needed to be thrust into the political arena. Housel has brain damage, which is clear from the report of at least three psychiatrists, to the extent that his responsibility for what he did was either substantially diminished or completely obliterated. And yet it is proposed to execute him. That is a real condemnation of the philosophy that undermines the death penalty, I think. So, obviously because he is British, it gave us some leverage to try and stop this wrong.
Question: District Attorney Danny Porter said Housel was no more English than he is - basically he's arguing that Housel who was born in Bermuda and lived nearly all his life in the US isn't British - and so the British shouldn't really get involved. How do you respond to that?
Vera Baird: He is British. He was born in Bermuda when it was British. There is a very long established principle of constitutional law, which both the British Government and the American government, despite the Attorney General assertions, accept, which is that a nation has a responsibility for it's citizens wherever they are. And consequently, the government has a responsibility for him and has responded to it very very well in this case.
Question: What would you say to people who think 'this man's case has gone through the US legal system and this system has come up with its judgement on him - what role has the UK got to interfere in the judicial system'?
Vera Baird: We are all party to a number of international human rights agreements and the way this case is being dealt with is, with all the goodwill in the world towards our US allies, in breech of several of them. Consequently if we see such a wrong being done by another country to one of our citizens, it is absolutely incumbent on us to intervene.
Question: You are flying out to Georgia later this week, what are you hoping to achieve?
Vera Baird: I have been asked to take part in a final clemency hearing, which to my horror I find takes please within hours of the execution. So that will be some time on March 11. It is to ask the parole board in Georgia to exercise mercy; it is not a time for legal argument of a technical kind. The American lawyers will take the lead and I'll put forward all that I can about the British stance on this issue and the British approach to this individual. I will be trying to say to them that the British would listen sympathetically to any disquiet they had about the way a Georgia citizen might be treated here and we would like them to do the same. I will explain British sensitivities about the death penalty generally and in particular about carrying it out on a man with diminished responsibility. I will explain that here that mental damage would mean that he would only be convicted of manslaughter and that it is in that context that we feel his sentence should be commuted. And so basically we will be asking for their help and their charity
Question: The British Government has been involved in this case - Jack Straw the Foreign Secretary personally appealed for the sentence to be commuted to life imprisonment - he actually phoned the Georgia Governor - so what more can the British Government do?
Vera Baird: Jack met me and Housel's mother and the attorney from the States and he did respond as you've said. I'm not without hope that Jack's call has had some benefit even though the Governor Of Georgia did not agree to stop the process. His recommendation to Jack was that he should approach the Parole Board because they would listen to him. It is just a little cheering that the Parole Board in Georgia has recently commuted a death sentence on a man who also has some mental health problems, though they were more extreme and obvious ones than Housel's. I know that the FCO continued to look for the right routes for their representations after that phone call and there have clearly been diplomatic moves through our Ambassador in Washington.
What else can be done is very clear. The Prime Minister himself can approach the authorities in the US. In reliance on his enormously heroic status with the US at the moment, he is in the best position to reiterate the arguments and try to persuade them.
Question: Why would the Prime Minister's involvement make such a difference?
Vera Baird: We are perceived by the Americans as their closest ally. Tony is respected and admired by vast tracts of the population in the US for the diplomacy he did in the aftermath of September 11 and for his unswerving support for the international coalition against terrorism. So if a good friend and supporter asks for this concession and explains why he wants it, all other things being equal, he has the best chance of anyone of success.
Question: So what's your message to Tony Blair?
Vera Baird: Please pick up the telephone and try to save a life.
Question: What's at stake if he fails to do this?
Vera Baird: We would still have our chance to put the clemency argument and it's not without hope. But his intervention offers greater hope.
Question: Some people argue that Tony Blair is in a dilemma over this case because his response to it is a strong indicator of whether he will be willing to speak out for the British al-Qaeda prisoners who may be sentenced to death - do you see the linkage here?
Vera Baird: I do see a connection between the al-Qaeda prisoners and this man, in the sense that if Tony Blair is prepared to speak out for him he is likely to be prepared to speak out for them. You'll recall that on February 8 when I asked him an oral question in the House of Commons at Prime Ministers Question Time, Tony responded very positively and clearly. And let's face it the steps that have been taken so far, on Housel's behalf, must have been done with his approval. So he is not just on side but active in trying to stop the death penalty on this British man. If there is ever a similar threat to the al Qaeda prisoners, I believe the government will take all reasonable steps to protect them, in exactly the way it has taken all reasonable steps to protect Tracy Housel.
Question: Some people argue that if Tony Blair intervenes in this case it could dent the special relationship he's forged with the US over the fight against terrorism - what do you think about that?
Vera Baird: I'm not sure how it could. The fact that we have this strong alliance makes us better able to ask, ally to ally, for some sympathy for our point of view and some leniency about this man, but it is a side issue from the purpose of the alliance. I do not see how making this request could jolt the principles on which the relationship has been forged.
Question: Could public pressure make any difference here?
Vera Baird: I think it's never wasted. There is going to be a demonstration in Downing Street at 11 o clock on Thursday morning and there will be full page adverts from human rights groups in some of today's newspapers, both urging him to intervene. I think that's all to the good and I do think he'll respond.
Question: How else could people get involved in this campaign?
Vera Baird: They could write to him. I've received hundreds of letters myself, many of them to let me know that they have written to the Prime Minister. There have been a large number from my own constituents, which is hugely cheering because I wouldn't want my own Redcar friends to think that this isn't something I ought to be doing. Its perfectly clear that they are pleased and proud that I have got involved. Keep those letters coming please but remember - do it quickly because we are really short of time, now. I fly out on Saturday morning.
Question: Is there a campaigning website for Tracy Housel - is there a campaigning email initiative going on?
Vera Baird: There is an internet site: www.tracyhousel.org.
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