Question: UNIFI is the union for the finance sector in the UK. Do your members include brokers, traders and bank staff?

Dai Davies: If we could get brokers involved then yes. It includes everybody in the finance sector but the bulk of our membership is traditionally in the main high street banks.

We have a fair presence in building societies and insurance companies as well.

Historically we have members in Barclays, RBS Group, HSBC and Lloyds TSB - all the major banks really.

Question: Why don't brokers and traders want to get involved?

Dai Davies: I think there are two reasons. The first is that we probably haven't pitched ourselves to be relevant to them, and the second is that they probably think that they don't need the services of a trade union.

Their possible view of a trade union would be the old image of picket lines and cloth caps, but that is something we have to alter. Unions have changed but perhaps we need to work on the image.

Question: With Labour well into its second term, how do you think the government have done in relation to the finance sector?

Dai Davies: Very well in general.

We'd always like some more but in terms of issues like flexible working, equality and rights for working mothers and fathers they have done really well, so on the whole we're pleased.

Equality is something we've been pushing for sometime - more rights for people who are older, including pension rights for partners of people who are outside the traditional marriage relationship.

Question: There's been a lot in the press recently about offshore outsourcing. What is UNIFI's position on this?

Dai Davies: It's a very difficult issue.

We can see the economic arguments that the banks are putting forward in terms of cost, its very evident that it is an opportunity for them to reduce these costs quite considerably.

But we don't believe that they should be rushing headlong without looking at other arguments as well.

The other arguments are reinvesting some of the savings into the communities that they've made their profits from, reinvesting in staff skills and reinvesting into reducing the costs of products to customers.

They shouldn't forget staff morale either. The closure of a centre in Newcastle by Lloyds TSB has affected staff morale throughout that organisation.

On a personal basis, I find really very strange that a financial services company, in a highly competitive market, would want to outsource one of its main communication channels to their customers. The lost opportunities could be significant.

We're hearing now that a lot of banks are thinking that the branch network is a great opportunity for them to go in and talk to their customers about their financial needs and what they have to do.

But five years ago they were shutting branches left, right and centre, so its all very cyclical.

I just find it very strange that they are shipping jobs overseas without any consideration of the loss of control. It seems the company bean counters are again winning the corporate arguments.

Question: So is UNIFI calling for protectionist policies to be put in place to safeguard jobs?

Dai Davies: No we're not.

Protectionism is a very difficult area. You can't shout and scream at America about steel tariffs if you're going to introduce protectionism yourself.

It's a fact that we have had more inward investment in this country - even in the financial services sector.

We are not advocating protectionism but we are advocating that banks need to have social responsibility in what they do, both to their customers, and also to their communities in which they work.

We don't want to see a trend whereby they start exploiting the workforce out in the overseas community, for instance by pressurising operatives to change their accent.

Protectionism doesn't work. But there needs to be some form of check and balance on the wholesale bandwagon affect of shipping wholesale jobs straight out of the country.

Question: What is the trend in the finance sector?

Dai Davies: Some of the big guys make a decision then everyone else seems to follow. Having said that, companies should consider that there are different horses for different courses.

HSBC for example, is a global bank which owns its own sites in India, whereas Lloyds TSB is looking to build up a third party agreement with another company to conduct a joint venture out there.

However, Royal Bank of Scotland has indicated that it isn't going to offshore outsource at all. This was a very welcome marker put down against the outsourcing trend and it put forward some strong arguments: the importance of the community, and staff morale outweighed the economic arguments.

Other companies have followed this line: Northern Rock and Alliance and Leicester have for example have said that they won't look at outsourcing.

Question: So can the trend to outsourcing be stopped?

Dai Davies: I think it can.

We're seeing more and more of the potential problems that could arise and the solutions to these problems are eating more and more into the perceived cost benefits.

For instance infrastructure protection, significant recruitment and training costs spring to mind.

One of the excuses companies use for the move is that staff turnover in Britain is huge - about 35 per cent per annum. But the rate of turnover of staff in India is significantly higher as well.

So they're not solving the problem - they are exporting it.

Our fear is that if they export the problem and it remains unresolved, it will become an Indian issue rather and a call centre management issue.

The fact is that they haven't managed the call centres properly in this country and that is why they've now got the problems.

Dai Davies: We want to start an intellectual debate including all parties.

The Lloyds TSB closure in Newcastle led to criticism from a number of MPs in that location. But we are now seeing other MPs thinking that they've got call centres in their constituency and there could also be a problem.

There is no independent analysis of the potential risk for the UK in political, social and economic terms of this trend. There are lots of figures around but the results are determined by the companies that are paying for the research, which isn't ideal.

On the one hand you have call centre associations insisting that capacity in the UK will continue to grow, on the other, management consultants, like McKinsey's, advocating escalation.

So what we don't know is what's happening in the middle. What we're looking for is an independent political drive to get some handle on what the extent of the problem is.

There is no doubt that as the locations of the call centres are traditionally in previous manufacturing areas, it means that those communities may well experience their second employment-loss whammy. Potentially they're going to be hit again.

These are reasonably good quality jobs and they have enabled women to enter into the market place and many are prime earners.

Question: Looking ahead to next year, what are your other main policy priorities?

Dai Davies: The other big area is the gender pay gap. The latest figures show 43 per cent in the finance sector (that is overall women earn 43 per cent less than man) which is a good 15 per cent bigger than any other sector around.

This is primarily because of the segregation of women into lower paid jobs. We want to see more impetus, and if necessary compulsion, being placed on companies to conduct transparent pay audits.

There has been an approach for a voluntary code but this isn't working.

Another issue is something the TUC has highlighted: unpaid overtime, which is rife in the finance sector.

Those working in rural communities for instance, have tremendous loyalty to their customers - more so than the loyalty they have to the brand - and they will make sure to ensure that the customer is happy by working late but are unlikely to be paid for it.

But a lot of the work they do is unmeasured, which precipitates the problem, as the banks then expect more for less.